Skip to main content


If in the EU. Try WERO and tell your bank how to make it better if you truly care about an alternative to PayPal and the Visa/Master duopoly. Don’t expect the perfect solution. Understand that alternatives are never better or perfect from the get-go but that we need to tell them through using them how to become better and better. Be a pioneer, not a follower :)

wero-wallet.eu

This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

hopefully the "become better and better" includes wero from migrating to an european cloud service instead of using aws.
in reply to Alfred J. Kwak (audiokontor) ☕

@mc Tell them. PayPal and Visa/Master aren’t better in that regard. Change through use beats criticising from the sidelines.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

in a worst case scenario paypal and credit cards are effectively unusable. hence i already forwarded my comment to my personal bank and EPI.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I opened a ticket about WERO support with my bank end of last year and they responded, that they have no plans to support it 😞
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I haven't found one yet, that fits all my requirements unfortunately :( I really like that my Bank is allowing me to create subaccounts with their own IBAN number and havily use that for clean seperation of things.
in reply to Marcus Schwarz 🇪🇺

@maswaba @Larvitz Where is „here“? I live in Germany and my bank (Postbank) and the banks of family members (mostly Sparkasse) do support it and we are happily using it.
in reply to Marcus Schwarz 🇪🇺

@maswaba That’s just plain wrong. Sparkasse supports Wero. I used it with my daughter (Sparkasse Oldenburg) and my parents (Sparkasse Detmold). @Larvitz
in reply to Marcus Schwarz 🇪🇺

@maswaba Ah ja, 1822 direkt. Ich empfehle Wechsel zur Frankfurter Sparkasse, die machen Wero. 1822 Direkt is eben keine Sparkasse. @Larvitz
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@Larvitz Ich wollte vor gut einem Jahr komplett weg in Richtung GLS (Ich hab nun nicht geguckt wie es mit wero bei denen ausschaut), aber die haben mir nichtmal die nötigen Unterlagen zum Unterschreiben geschickt innerhalb von 3 Monaten. Da hatte ich erstmal genug von Wechselabsichten. Aber vielleicht sollte ich das nochmal angehen.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

well it is hard to try when it's not available yet. For now it is only Germany, France and Belgium. It will take a few years before it will be wider available. Here in the Netherlands, we only see a Wero logo next to the iDEAL logo, and it will be during 2027 before we actually see anything from it.

But it definitely is an interesting development.

in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

of course it is already a large potential userbase to start with, and work out the kinks in the system. But to become successful, also for international payments, it has to be rolled out further, which will take time.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

it seems to be euro only, so no luck in 🇨🇿. But Visa/Master have slowly been replaced by instant QR transfers here.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

The expected „yes, but“ is strong in the replies. ;) (I will now go to bed, so the "yes,, but" crowd will have its playing field until I wake up again and post friendly replies with links on how they are wrong. My advice: Try Wero, note it isn't perfect, tell Wero and your bank what is needed for you to switch fully. We can do this :)
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Well, I had no idea wero existed, but I just found out it does, and that it is available through my bank... Thanks!

(Obligatory nitpicking: it's Visa MasterCard and Amex...)

in reply to Parade du Grotesque 💀

@ParadeGrotesque Wero is not Amex, MasterCard, Visa. At least according to their page. It is operated by European Payments Initiative. Also EPI seems to be a separate infrastructure. Or do I understand your post wrong?
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@prefec2
I think it's a misunderstanding.

I know wero is not Visa / MasterCard / Amex, I was trying to point out that the US credit card system is made out of these 3 companies.

Wero is, of course, its own thing.

in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

"But I have Bizum and it's so good" -> It joins Wero epicompany.eu/media-insights/e…

"But I have iDeal and it's so good" -> It joins Wero ideal.nl/en/naar-wero

"My bank doesn't support it" -> Other banks do, switch, maybe?

This entry was edited (5 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

.ch has Twint, and.... finews.com/news/english-news/6… it will be a long time for that is replaced ;)

UBS pushed it everywhere at one point and that worked and now most Swiss banks support it and one can pay almost anywhere with it. No Apple-Pay alike NFC payments though, all QR based. Physical shops all most all support Apple Pay, but most also Twint; online more do Twint than Apple Pay I would say (though limited sample set, as I only use a limited set of shops ;) )

in reply to Jeroen Massar

Switzerland isn't EU member, so they will always have their own thing that I can't use when visiting there. But cash still works :) You did note how I started this thread with "If in the EU. Try WERO ..."?
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

yep; but that article also mentions that if uptake is high enough they might join forces ;)
And agree that that is annoying, same in reverse when leaving .ch
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@jeroen Switzerland is part of the SEPA schema, so I can imagine that one day Twint will join this too. After all, all the QR codes do is tell you where to send money to. Its all software, and software is flexible...
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I tried it on two banks.. On both ends I reached out to the customer support. They filed an issue which both are not resolved until today..
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

the most annoying thing about Wero banks will probably not listen to: it's so immensely centered on those banking apps
in reply to Julian

@j_r@jwildeboer it's just a link to your internet banking, so if your bank has got a normal internet banking interface you can use that as well.

it just shows a big honking qr code by default because most people do their internet banking from their phone, but there's an equally button to pay from your browser

in reply to sijmen

at least "Sparkasse" seems to only support it via their app, not the online banking website
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I've contacted two German NGOs regrading Wero (you can donate via Sepa, credit and Paypal). They said that they keep an eye on it but last time they tried it wasn't possible for them to implement it. I don't know about their use cases but I thought it's just a QR code.
I once wrote a ticket from within the Wero app about some iOS UI issues and they responded and somewhat improved things in the next update. So... thumbs up for #Wero. I will write them about the NGO's responses.
#wero
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Nice to see alternatives to the visa/mastercard ecosphere. Also looking into #taler at the moment, but it seems that Wero has some more support. Hopefully they will indeed Europolize their service suppliers such as their cloud supplier.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

In NL iDeal (will be replaced by Wero) is already the de facto standard for online payments and Sepa Direct debit for recurring payments. Since a few year I also use Sepa Direct debit from NL for a few services in Germany.

Curious how Wero will work with POS payments. I read they also want to introduce this in the future.

in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

als in Spanien lebender: bizum ist so cool und praktisch und funktioniert. Von Person zu Person, aber auch bei Ikea etc. Ich hoffe wero und bizum finden zusammen… wahrscheinlich nicht…
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

#Wero is only available on the play store (which needs a google account), so no real sovereignty. Also, since last update the app crash on my phone at startup. So I cannot use the support in-app, nor do I want to send personal information though their useless chatbot on their website
#wero
in reply to Louis Leblanc

It's also available on the Apple App Store. And I never talked about sovereignty, I do talk about an alternative to PayPal and the Visa/Master duopoly?
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

yeah I was just kind of raging about european apps being only on the play store which I absolutely hate because of the lack of sovereignty 😅
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

tbh wero is not that much better than paypal.
I only see it as a temporary solution until more privacy friendly solutions like gnu taler can be used with euro.
in reply to Farshid Hakimy / فرشید

Wero isn't US based. That's something, isn't it? And paying with cash is always the better alternative :)
This entry was edited (6 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

it _could_ help reducing the impact from foreign sanctions against individuals, but it doesn't make small payments more privacy friendly than sepa payments.

I don't think it should be recommended only because it is european, because even with wero, your payments are not really private.
Instead of PayPal knowing who you are paying, now one or two banks will know. And the data being in europe doesn't make it impossible to abuse it.

in reply to Farshid Hakimy / فرشید

@farshidhakimy Making a transfer from one account to another always means that two banks know about the transaction. That's how SEPA works. What gets cut out is the middle man (PayPal, Visa/Master) getting that data. And that is a good thing in my book. If you want anonymous transactions, cash is your friend :)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I do agree that sepa is better.
But my point was that sepa itself isn't privacy friendly.
I don't think we should embrace projects like wero when banks could instead work on gnu taler.
Wero being a success would mean that the future of money won't be privacy friendly in the eu, especially because they are also working on making nfc payments possible.
And unfortunately cash availability is getting worse.
People that prefer cash are already penalized today, f.e. at self checkouts.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

WERO sounds really interesting.

Are you aware of anybody who's written it up for the technical layman? It sounds like a P2P protocol between banks, but I can't imagine there's no central control at all.

in reply to Matthew Booth

@mattb it is basically a layer above sepa instant that uses mail/phone to find the iban.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@farshidhakimy @mattb ... Which still has the effect that anybody who knows (or enumerates) your phone number gets your full legal name from your bank; no transaction or interaction from you necessary, not even a notification will happen.

I recommend using Wero, but please don't use your phone number for that, unless you consider it public.

in reply to Ysegrim

@ysegrim For a better privacy-preserving method of exchanging money between two people in physical proximity, I use cash ;) @farshidhakimy @mattb
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@farshidhakimy @mattb The thing is: Wero spills your legal name to anyone who has your phone number without needing physical proximity or an exchange of money. Tested between two different banks, with the other person far away.
in reply to Ysegrim

@ysegrim And if you don't like that, don't use Wero. Fine with me. I accept this knowingly as you can also see from my account name. @farshidhakimy @mattb
Unknown parent

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:
@andre Tell that to your bank, not to me ;)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

hell yeah!

Write to banks about improvement. Be friendly, be specific, tell them you like their service. Tell them exactly what's wrong or what you're missing. They love constructive feedback.

I know because I did exactly this. And now the app store links from my bank's website to the Wero app, point to the actual Wero app. Not erroneously to their 2FA app. Small thing, but an improvement. Got a nice thank you email too 😎

in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

yes and:
try to support NGI Taler (by telling legislators maybe?) for another alternative. Pilot project in 🇨🇭 is live and can be used.
taler.net/en/ngi-taler.html
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Thanks for your post.

While checking I realized that Triodos Bank plans to leave Germany in 2027. Makes me sad that there will be fewer options in this niche of sustainable banking.
Guess I have a good list of choices with those supporting WERO.

in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Oh great, finally we’ll be able to be independent from the US, we just need a smartphone certified by Google or Apple...
And it looks like they’ve done everything possible to make their infrastructure independent from the US as well :
hosting-checker.net/websites/w…
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Can someone help me understand why we need this given we have a fully functioning SEPA payment system? Arent these apps really only relevant in the US because their payement systems are so fragmented?
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I have transformed my daughter and partner already. I was even able to pay my barber last time. It starts slow, but it starts.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Had Payconiq before, which is now replaced by Wero. Works just as well, but now also outside of Belgium. Excellent!
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

#wero is like the #twint for Euros? I think there is a real need for it in the EU. Twint is a very important payment service in Switzerland, let's hope wero can be the same for countries with Euro
in reply to Florian :kt_sg: :swi_swi:

@kelvan It is a bit more. First we had the SEPA system to make transfers across many EU countries easy (and free). Then we added direct and real-time A2A (Account to Account) transfers (also for free) and now Wero as the top layer for simplicity. Soon PoS (Point of Sale) systems will join and online stores will also be ablate use (rollout has started). All of this without the need for a middle man and under EU data protection rules.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

so how it is more than twint? I have twint from my bank and am able to send instantly to other people, pay my Galaxus order, pay my parking ticket, pay my cheese at a local cheese market by scanning a QR code.
Switzerland is also (partly) part of SEPA, I can send euros for free to another country, something that does not work the other way around because my Austrian bank has a huge fee for sepa transactions to Switzerland 😤
in reply to Florian :kt_sg: :swi_swi:

@kelvan It spans a lot of countries. Same app, same codes, no national borders. And Twint is exploring joining Wero in the future.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I think it is more a question of currency than borders.
Wero is as I understand Euros only, and also not available in all Euro countries.
in reply to Florian :kt_sg: :swi_swi:

@kelvan It is expanding to more countries as we speak. Check back again in 6 months from now to see how much will change wrt to acceptance and usage in even more countries.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@kelvan

this really is a dream. Imagine keeping Visa/Mastercard and Apple/Google out of the business and simply pay by using yopur phone at the cashier in your favorite supermarket or kebab shop.

I would absolutely love to see this happen rather sooner than later.

in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

manwhile EU: Belgium, Germany, Netherlands. The next country, I guess, would be Singapore. /s
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Leider bietet es meine Bank bisher nur von Privat zu Privat an. Im 2. Halbjahr sollen Online-Zahlungen dazu kommen. Ich hoffe, dass in naher Zukunft dann auch Vor-Ort-Zahlungen möglich sein werden.

Und klar habe ich diese WERO-Funktion in der ING-App bereits letztes Jahr aktiviert.

#WERO

#wero
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I use it often to transfer money to friends/family but to replace Visa/Mastercard we’ll need the payment system which is not yet available.
And to replace PayPal, the vendor website should allow it as an option, so this will take some times.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Ich halte persönlich nichts von diesen Diensten.

Zwar würde ich mir einen Gegensatz zu Stripe oder PayPal wünschen aber davon ist dieses Produkt Lichtjahre entfernt und war es wahrscheinlich auch nicht vorgesehen.

Es gilt eher zur Überwachung und Kontrolle der bürgerlichen Gelder.

Sprich: wenn ein Nachbar in der Not mal aushilft.

Wir müssen die Banken im Auge behalten, nicht umgekehrt !!!

in reply to Bas Zoetekouw

@baszoetekouw Your freedom. But you should tell them, not me, that the trackers on their website (that you can deny to use) is where your tolerance has its limits.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

the site says this is “to send and receive money between family and friends”, but we can do this with regular SEPA transfers. I don’t need Visa/Mastercard for that. I couldn’t even use Visa/Mastercard for that if I wanted to.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

i dont see a single spanish or swedish bank in there. They have their own solution so, not hopeful about this :(
in reply to ruthpozuelo

That's #Bizum. Haven't looked at it but hopefully its not as bad as #Wero - #SEPA payments are the answer.
in reply to ruthpozuelo

@ruthpozuelo See social.wildeboer.net/@jwildebo…


"But I have Bizum and it's so good" -> It joins Wero epicompany.eu/media-insights/e…

"But I have iDeal and it's so good" -> It joins Wero ideal.nl/en/naar-wero

"My bank doesn't support it" -> Other banks do, switch, maybe?


in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Moving to another country just to get access to an app seems a bit drastic imo… what do i know 🤷‍♀️
in reply to ruthpozuelo

Not what I said. EuroPA, the company that also runs Bizum in Spain, is cooperating with Wero, so soon your Spanish Bizum app will work in a lot more countries. No need to move :)
This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Lovely, I need sweden to cooperate, the app is Swish. Then I could send money to Bizum users.
Till then I am out of options.

Would love for it to work though…

in reply to ruthpozuelo

@ruthpozuelo Swish is free to join Wero, that’s their decision to make. When enough users ask them to, they will.
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

Most users dont care or know about it.

This needs to be a EU initiative so banks are ”forced” into it. Same as they did with roaming.

Insane this is a thing in 2026…

in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

A first step could be that banks offering acceptance of #wero payments stopped making the price a secret.

My advice: start wero with really attractive prices (say, no more than 0.5 to 1% of payment) and make these prices Public.

#wero
This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to Joachim Tuchel

Which fees? Wero for person to person transactions is completely free. If a bank decides to add their own fees, that would be a reason for me to avoid that bank.
This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

I mean the fees for #c2b or #b2b payments.

Wero will not survive with beer table rounds of exchanging a few bucks spontaneously.
Nice gimmick, but not a business model.

#c2b #b2b