Mastodon.world cancels famous German author Kazim's posts - now he left Mastodon completely
If I understand it right, the moderator of the mastodon.world instance has blocked several posts by Hasnain Kazim, as Kazim reported yesterday on Facebook:
facebook.com/661473263/posts/1…
Kazim is a quite famous and successful book author in Germany and something between left, conservative and liberal. He was journalist for the most important German weekly news magazine Spiegel.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasnain_…
Canceling his posts is stupid and certainly completely exaggerated. To me from the external perspective it seems that the moderator is abusing his power. He is damaging free and respectful discussion.
Furthermore, when a famous person like Kazim reports those experiences to his broad audience, who do not understand the functioning of the fediverse, the moderator also damages Mastodon in general significantly, it seems to me.
What do you think about this case ?
like this
abeorch
in reply to hauke • •Fediverse reshared this.
Zak
in reply to hauke • • •This post says who he is and that he got banned from mastodon.world, but it does not say what he posted there before getting banned.
The .world network is not known, in general for having unconventional rules or heavy-handed moderation. Without more information, I have to assume he posted something that would get him banned a lot of other places too.
like this
dandi8, bluGill, AGuyAcrossTheInternet, Maeve, mrmaplebar, NoneOfUrBusiness, Lasslinthar, fif-t and OfCourseNot like this.
TheRealKuni
in reply to Zak • • •like this
AGuyAcrossTheInternet, Maeve, mrmaplebar, NoneOfUrBusiness and Lasslinthar like this.
Asetru
in reply to Zak • • •It's in the bottom right of the screenshot that shows his complaint:
Deepl translation:
like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd, AGuyAcrossTheInternet, Maeve, mrmaplebar, NoneOfUrBusiness and Lasslinthar like this.
Zak
in reply to Asetru • • •That's his version of events that he's showing to his audience. People who get banned from things often share a harmless-looking excerpt when that's not really what got them banned.
It would be good to have the whole context before reaching a conclusion.
like this
AGuyAcrossTheInternet, Maeve, Quantumantics, mrmaplebar, NoneOfUrBusiness, dandi8, Lasslinthar and bluGill like this.
MrMakabar
in reply to Zak • • •Zak
in reply to MrMakabar • • •hauke
in reply to Zak • • •Also on FB you will not find anything that you "would expect to get moderated on a .world server". He is very balanced and respectful (but also very clear) in his posts on complicated topics, as I must grant him, even if I do not always agree with him.
It is a significant loss for the fediverse to lose a German top author. Fediverse needs those accounts to attract normal users.
Mulligrubs
in reply to Zak • • •Everything he says is his version of events, everything you say is your version of events, everything I say is my version of events. So... you never, ever need to say that. WE KNOW
like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
poVoq
in reply to Asetru • • •Ist halt ne wirklich dumme Verkürzung der Tatsachen, und wenn man sich so die Mehrheit der Kommentare in deutschsprachigen Onlinezeitungen anschaut dann könnte man auch denken die AfD hat 90% Zustimmung.
Ich vermute mal der mastodon.world Moderator hatte keine Ahnung wer dieser Typ ist (ich hatte auch noch nie von dem gehöhrt), aber hat dauernd (vermutlich nicht ganz unbegründete) Beschwerden wegen Islamophobie bekommen.
Edit: ups, sorry, I mistook this for a German speaking com.
It’s just a really stupid oversimplification of the facts, and if you look at the majority of the comments in German-language online newspapers, you might even think the AfD has a 90% approval rating.
I’m guessing the mastodon.world moderator had no idea who this guy is (I never heard of him either), but kept receiving complaints (presumably not entirely unfounded) about Islamophobia.
Carighan Maconar
in reply to poVoq • • •hauke
in reply to Carighan Maconar • • •Hasnain Kazim - DER SPIEGEL
DER SPIEGELpoVoq
in reply to hauke • • •Carighan Maconar
in reply to poVoq • • •poVoq
in reply to Carighan Maconar • • •Eldritch
in reply to poVoq • • •Yes, at this point comments online don't mean all that much. Could be someone with an LLM or a small segment of very loud people with a lot of spare time.
The individual comment itself doesn't seem particularly bannable. But a pattern of islamophobia could be. Which may be the larger issue.
schnurrito
in reply to Asetru • • •Wildmimic
in reply to Zak • • •It's right there:
A post of him was deleted where he reported that a majority of arabic language comments in international media were celebrating the attack in Berlin on a Pride event, and were also celebrating the guy who weaponized his car. He says that this is a big, massive problem in that post.
He then just posted "The mods have deleted my previous comment, is that for real?" while citing the same comment again - this is what got him banned.
!yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com material.
like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
actionjbone
in reply to Wildmimic • • •So he posted misinformation that attacked arabic speakers, and the post got taken down?
I don't see the problem.
like this
hankskyjames777 likes this.
Wildmimic
in reply to actionjbone • • •new_world_odor
in reply to Wildmimic • • •Wildmimic
in reply to new_world_odor • • •Yep, this time it just showed up the arabic part of society that is not compatible with human rights and democracy. I am pretty sure had OOP posted about neonazis celebrating, that their account would still be up and available.
The German left has a very serious issue: they cannot fathom the idea that Jews might be committing genocide, the same as they cannot believe that the ISIS-fraction is celebrating when LGBT people are hurt and killed.
There really has to be change in the german left: they have to acknowledge that there are people inside of the minorities they are usually protecting from german neonazis that are just as bad as the neonazis they are defending against. I see movement in the youth which does not accept Israels "antisemitism"-bait, but they still have to start acknowledging the hardcore islamist sharia bastards that are no better than the skinheads they are used to fighting.
Grainne
in reply to Wildmimic • • •Wildmimic
in reply to Grainne • • •fruitycoder
in reply to Wildmimic • • •Wildmimic
in reply to fruitycoder • • •I postulate that people posting comments in arabic languages on international news sites are by a large majority people who live in the respective countries outside of immigrants that still feel more connected to their country of origin than to the countries they are currently in, comparable to the fact that people posting in german are with a 95%+ probability coming from the DACH area or are immigrants into other countries.
No dogwhistle here. Specific languages point to specific geographic areas where these languages are prominently spoken, and if you are using german on the comment section of the bbc, people will rightly assume that you come from the DACH area.
fruitycoder
in reply to Wildmimic • • •From the area, maybe, but that doesn't cover all opinions or diasporia that could be in an area.
Speaking Arabic could mean about a third of world in land coverage or diaspora found all over the world. Its a poor catagorization. I mean not nearly as brain dead as phenotype like racists do, but still poor short hand for much.
Mulligrubs
in reply to actionjbone • • •You don't see the problem? That's the problem.
Feel free to prove "misinformation" though. I assume you must have the logs, share them here to prove misinformation.
like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
AmidFuror
in reply to actionjbone • • •like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞
in reply to AmidFuror • • •And if my grandmother had wheels she could be a bike.
AmidFuror
in reply to 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞 • • •🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞
in reply to AmidFuror • • •Auth
in reply to 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞 • • •actionjbone
in reply to Auth • • •TORFdot0
in reply to Zak • • •If someone gets banned from an instance, they are free to move their account to a new instance and still keep their followers.
Someone doesn’t just get to break instance rules just because they are a successful author. Attitudes need to change, if you approach the fediverse like corporate social media, you are doing it wrong.
What’s his excuse going to be once he gets muted on bluesky?
OpenStars
in reply to TORFdot0 • • •Also, what does "banning" even mean? Lemmings I find love to abuse terminology so that a one-hour time-out period gets referred to as a "ban" (tbf this was inherited from Reddit, no matter how much we'd like to leave the old ways behind, they do tend to cling stubbornly).
But I don't know how Mastodon uses those words - is he even truly "banned" or merely "banned" for like an hour while the moderator spent that time researching the situation?
frongt
in reply to OpenStars • • •OpenStars
in reply to frongt • • •Irl if you "ban" something, like cigarettes, then it does not necessarily imply forever but it does sorta imply until the law is changed i.e. until further notice.
So then if you ban a person for a period of one week, the timeline needs to be delivered alongside the word - "banned for a week".
Which the OP did not do, and moreover (I am not sure if the post was edited or was always this way), seems to go out of its way to imply a permanent banning? Though the phrasing used was "cancels" rather than bans.
Well, perhaps it's a language issue, but this OP is also quite sensationalistic, so my fault I suppose for engaging with what is clearly an emotional rant rather than a piece of any substance (again, regardless of whether the original subject is true or not, I am saying that this post does a poor job describing what occurred).
Wildmimic
in reply to OpenStars • • •(Just as reference towards your comment so that newcomers see the whole picture; I know you already replied to me and just want to offer the whole picture in the thread)
From the Mastodon Docs:
A Mastodon suspension (that is the type of ban seen in the screenshot) means the account is effectively deleted. The account no longer appears in search, the profile page is gone, and all of the posts, uploads, followers, and all other data are removed publicly. However, all the data is available in the admin back-end for a period of 30 days from suspension. This is to give the user an opportunity to work with instance admins to resolve any potential issues and have the account re-instated.
Wildmimic
in reply to frongt • • •In this case, the duration is infinite:
From the Mastodon Docs:
A Mastodon suspension (that is the type of ban seen in the screenshot) means the account is effectively deleted. The account no longer appears in search, the profile page is gone, and all of the posts, uploads, followers, and all other data are removed publicly. However, all the data is available in the admin back-end for a period of 30 days from suspension. This is to give the user an opportunity to work with instance admins to resolve any potential issues and have the account re-instated.
Wildmimic
in reply to OpenStars • • •From the Mastodon Docs:
A Mastodon suspension (that is the type of ban seen in the screenshot) means the account is effectively deleted. The account no longer appears in search, the profile page is gone, and all of the posts, uploads, followers, and all other data are removed publicly. However, all the data is available in the admin back-end for a period of 30 days from suspension. This is to give the user an opportunity to work with instance admins to resolve any potential issues and have the account re-instated.
it doesn't get more permanently banned than "deletion of user profile, posts, followers and uploads"
OpenStars
in reply to Wildmimic • • •Count042
in reply to Zak • • •Only a world user would make this comment.
Honytawk
in reply to Count042 • • •OpenStars
in reply to hauke • • •hauke
in reply to OpenStars • • •thx.
This case, though, goes beyond a simple case of annoyed users.
Kazim is a bestselling author from Germany, carrying a CNN Journalist Award.
He says he got canceled because his posts were not appreciated by the mod.
This case concerns the basic working and ethical principles in the fediverse, I would say.
eleijeep
in reply to hauke • • •Carighan Maconar
in reply to eleijeep • • •frongt
in reply to hauke • • •OpenStars
in reply to hauke • • •This is not an objective fact but an opinion (whether well-substantiated or not I cannot tell). I am not clicking on a Facebook link to learn more, so thank you for adding some additional context here.
There is also a !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com community that will certainly agree with you that anything done by a .world community moderator is by definition wrong.
As for myself I have no opinion on this currently, but only questions like banning one person does not make a place authoritarian/fascist but a pattern of such events would. All that this post says though is a complaint about the one person - again, whether justified or not I have no idea, as other commenters here are likewise saying, we simply do not currently have the facts to be able to judge properly.
givesomefucks
in reply to hauke • • •Buddy...
No one has to let anyone else post on their instance...
If the mods didn't want them on a community, or admins didn't want them on their instance, that's their choice.
Like, there's ~10 million "mastodon" accounts, over half on Bluesky, and only like 10k on mastodon.world.
This isn't a big deal
pseudo
in reply to hauke • • •like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
StillAlive
in reply to pseudo • • •like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
Carighan Maconar
in reply to StillAlive • • •Yeah I mean, durr. We knew from reddit et al that this'd happen, and since here it's not a central platform it'll be more so. Everyone is their own little dictator, after all.
The issue is more that people talk others into going into the fediverse in particular to avoid moderation abuse on bigger platforms. You do, but you only avoid facebook moderation abuse if you leave facebook. So long as you go anywhere else, you'll get moderation abused there, sooner or later. The mod abuse is just a natural element of it, unless we'd get a publicly (as in, the people, not a single individual or entity) owned system.
skribe
in reply to StillAlive • • •Shitty humans being shitty.
The difference is in the fediverse you're not locked into one ecosystem. You can pick and choose what's best for you. In many cases, you can even take your connections and data with you when you move.
rain_enjoyer
in reply to hauke • • •Kierunkowy74@kbin.social
in reply to rain_enjoyer • • •like this
Lasslinthar likes this.
gedfromgont
in reply to hauke • • •like this
mrmaplebar, NoneOfUrBusiness, dandi8 and OfCourseNot like this.
realcaseyrollins
in reply to gedfromgont • • •Yep. But I'm not sure what Centrism is, exactly.
In America's Overton Window, Centrism typically means Classical Liberalism, while eschewing far-left mindsets like Marxism.
lambalicious
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •realcaseyrollins
in reply to lambalicious • • •Mulligrubs
in reply to lambalicious • • •No.
The majority of voters are centrists, if we were just ashamed of being right wing a Democrat could never win office, now could they? You require centrist votes to win any election
(major parties are only 30% of voters each, the other 40% are not secretly right wing)
OpenStars
in reply to Mulligrubs • • •~11% of American voters are more on the extreme left, another ~11% more on the extreme right-wing, leaving a solid 4/5ths in the middle.
Which is why these terms aren't useful in a global forum like the Fediverse - when USA Democrats are simultaneously both left and also right, depending on the recipient's POV, then the term ceases to convey any (non-ambiguous) meaning.
Or we could use the terms properly in relation to the country of origin... except as the person you replied to shows, people refuse to use that level of consideration that their preferred way is not the only lens through which to view the entire world.
Honestly, spending time on Lemmy has made me less left-leaning than I used to be. All the hate and vitriol and especially disinformation spreading has really turned me away from it all. Especially when I see how it is identical to the right-wing POVs.
Extremists on both sides: death to everyone who holds viewpoints different from my own!!
🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞
in reply to OpenStars • • •"I don't support human rights as strongly as I once did because I don't like how everyone acts on the internet" is a weird take. I've always thought it was.
OpenStars
in reply to 🌞 Alexander Daychilde 🌞 • • •Thank you for proving my point.
I am very likely to be killed myself, though whether by the Left or Right is anyone's guess at this point.
The two are not so dissimilar after all - since the right claims to be correct while the left says that bOtH sIdEs SaMe, hence don't bother voting, which amounts to the same outcome.
In fairness, I should have said that the "left" and right are similar, since the left is more like "genocide is always wrong" whereas the "left" is like "genocide is only wrong when done by oThEr SiDe BaD" (i.e. Russia, China, and North Korea can do no wrong).
lambalicious
in reply to OpenStars • • •OpenStars
in reply to lambalicious • • •Then it is a good thing that I never said that.
realcaseyrollins
in reply to OpenStars • • •freeman
in reply to gedfromgont • • •american?
One can have many different views on political decisions. We have many models and axies to describe and categorize them, but no model is perfectly describing the complex reality
some Ideas one can have:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_…
only few of them are mutually exclusive
List_of_political_ideologies
en.wikipedia.orgbluGill
in reply to gedfromgont • • •What do those words mean? They are far to broad. What does my opinion on Tariffs have to do with my opinion on health care?
Classical liberal (but not liberal) at least has meaning - lets not kill each other even though we are of different religions (and in the last 200 years expanded to: lets not hold slaves and lets allow women to have rights). However because that is so broad there is lots of room for disagreement on details within that category.
magnue
in reply to gedfromgont • • •Mulligrubs
in reply to gedfromgont • • •I am often called a centrist... I hold views the left and the right both despise, I agree with one here and the other there. In USA we are officially "independents" and are the majority of voters (40% independents, 30% Democrat ("left"), 30% Republican.
"independents" also include all other political parties (Greens, Libertarians, Socialists, et al), which are more active locally than federally.
Wildmimic
in reply to gedfromgont • • •Being left on immigration, while supporting right wing legislation towards minorities that bring antidemocratic or anti-human-rights-sentiments and refuse to integrate into german society. These immigrants continue to create parallel societies where things like honor killings and application of sharia law are if not endorsed at least accepted.
The liberal part is probably market-liberal.
ozoned
in reply to hauke • • •I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding still of how the Fediverse works.
Any instance, mastodon.world for instance, is NOT Mastodon itself. Mastodon is JUST the software that was chosen. Each instance is allowed their own rules. Each community is allowed their own rules within the instance. If you get banned, think of it more that someone has asked you to leave their home and doesn't want you there.
We have to get away from these ideas of that every instance of Mastodon or Lemmy or whatever completely reflects the entire Fediverse.
This comes with a big caveat. I think the world still sees us this way. And I think we HAVE to do a better job of, "This is a platform and if you're banned you're gone." Instead we should help folks understand, if you're kicked off an instance, there are a dozen others. There is a community for everyone. Hell, run your own or ask and folks can run one for you.
I will 100% disagree with a LOT of folks on a LOT of issues and I'd never want to host socials for the majority of folks. BUT I will absolutely defend your right to exist on the Fediverse and even help you, to a point, set up your own instance. But everyone needs to be mindful, that those places can and will still ban you. But you can at least get your message out to your community.
I don't know what was said as I don't speak German. I also don't know why he was banned. But that is .world's right to eject anyone from their community they don't want. If the person decides to leave and not come back at all, that really sucks. But they also have the right to start their own community and continue interacting.
I've banned someone from TubeFree.org. I've blocked folks. I've refused to allow someone to create an account on TubeFree.org. Am I censoring someone? Maybe, but I'm attempting to build a specific community.
I'd absolutely LOVE to see any of these big instances have communities start their own instance. We shouldn't have monoliths in the fediverse. The more diverse the network, the better. Honestly I'm trying to help communities run their own for their own community. I've even been talking with folks and attempting to work with folks on a spin up your own image to run from a business or home that is plug and play.
We NEED people to run their own, control their data, manage this themselves. We're not there yet, but I honestly think someday we will be and everyone will just have a presence on the Fediverse. A community blocks you? You won't even notice because YOU control YOUR digital identity.
like this
NoneOfUrBusiness, Lasslinthar and OfCourseNot like this.
9488fcea02a9
in reply to ozoned • • •like this
bluGill and hankskyjames777 like this.
realcaseyrollins
in reply to ozoned • • •People's first impression tends to color how they view something. Fair or not, the first Mastodon instance you join tends to affect your view of the software, and the Fediverse as a whole.
If people tell you to join a social media website, and you get treated poorly when you join, why would you want to stay on that website's social network?
like this
bluGill likes this.
Grail
in reply to ozoned • • •Yeah, the "mastodon.world" framing is.... not good.
When I first made MULTIVERSE, I made the URL piefed.soulism.net. Then, I changed My mind. Now it's multiverse.soulism.net. I am not offering people piefed. I'm offering people MULTIVERSE. We have our own branding, our own mission, our own values, our own rules. I have no interest on selling normies on the idea of Piefed. I wanna sell them on MULTIVERSE. MULTIVERSE is not piefed.
But lemmy.world is lemmy. Mastodon.world is mastodon. They do not represent themselves, their own values, their own meaning-making. They represent other projects. And I think that's dishonest and kinda boring, and kinda bad for the fediverse.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to ozoned • • •It's this very thing that especially those who only came to Mastodon for reach often don't understand.
All Fediverse newbies, except for those who escape from Reddit to Lemmy those very few who escape from Instagram to Pixelfed, are being railroaded to Mastodon without being told a thing about the Fediverse outside of Mastodon. That's because those who on-board them either think that Mastodon is hard to understand already, what with being decentralised and having "instances" and stuff, and the Fediverse, as a network of tons of wholly different stuff, is incomprehensible level: eldritch. Or they don't know about the Fediverse outside Mastodon itself.
In fact, most Mastodon newbies seem to not even be told about Mastodon being a network of lots of independent websites. They may think that Mastodon is a network in the same sense as Facebook being a network.
So for those who joined via the Web interface, Mastodon tends to be a website. Namely the server that they've joined.
For them, mastodon.social = Mastodon = the Fediverse. Or mastodon.world = Mastodon = the Fediverse.
For those who joined by loading and using the official app without taking a glance at any Mastodon server's website even only once, Mastodon is a phone app, just like Telegram is a phone app, and Facebook is a phone app. They don't know fuck all about what's happening behind the app, and they don't care as long as it works.
For them, the Mastodon app on their phone = Mastodon = the Fediverse.
Private, spare-time Mastodon users will eventually learn that Mastodon is, in fact, not one website or simply an app, but made up of many such websites called "servers" or "instances".
The next step will be for them to learn that the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon. That all these Mastodon "servers" are fully connected to other wholly different websites a.k.a. "servers" (or whatever the respective Fediverse server application calls its servers). For example, this happens when they receive an answer to one of their toots that's way over 500 characters long (which they deem technologically impossible in the Fediverse because Mastodon can't do it), and that contains stuff like text formatting (which they deem technologically impossible in the Fediverse because Mastodon can't do it).
Even private, spare-time Mastodon users may be stuck in such a Mastodon-only bubble that they take two years or more to learn the latter.
Now, professionals, that's a wholly different matter. They don't have time to engage with the community. They can barely catch up with the comments on their posts. If they read them at all, that is. They don't read what the community has to say outside these comments either because they don't follow anyone who's really engaged in the community.
Thus, they never come across a message that even only gives them a hint on what the Fediverse actually is. Nothing that they actually pay attention to on Mastodon tells them that Mastodon is not just one website or a phone app that neatly hides what's happening behind itself.
They can have joined in early November, 2022, days after Elon Musk's Twitter takeover and still think that Mastodon is one website. And either they've never heard the term "Fediverse", or they think that "Fediverse" is another name for Mastodon, i.e. that one website that they think is Mastodon.
Kazim probably was too professional and too busy to see what the community was posting about. So he kept on "knowing" that mastodon.world = the Mastodon website = the Fediverse.
like this
potatoguy likes this.
givesomefucks
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •$
You typed all that and didn't realize Jack Dorsey owning Bluesky has something to do with everyone being funnelled to Bluesky?
It's over half the masodon accounts...
hauke
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Question remains: what is the consequence of this detailed (and in my eyes correct) analysis?
Well, maybe this very generalized discussion goes too far beyond the concrete case. But those questions have been on my mind too for a few months; Is the fediverse good but too complicated for this world?
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to hauke • • •Probably.
Let's face it: Hardly anyone has an actual computer anymore. People do everything with phones nowadays. For them, everything is an app. They don't know what's happening behind the app, like, whether that app is just a remote control for a website. They don't want to know. And they don't care. It works. That's all.
This may be why Google is putting all bets on Gemini. Nobody Googles anymore when nobody uses the Web anymore because everybody uses dedicated apps for everything.
These people are often easy to spot on Mastodon because they hold on to Mastodon's official app for their dear lives. It's the most lack-lustre Mastodon app of all. But they don't know because they've never tried anything else. Above all, however, they couldn't use Mastodon with an app that isn't named "Mastodon".
Then there are the more old-school people who do still use the Web. Most of them still actually have a desktop or laptop computer.
But they are caught in a principle that has ruled over the Web from 1994 to today: One service, one up-front website. And that website is usually www..com or www..org or maybe www..net.
And if it's a "network", it's one network, one service, one up-front website.
The concept of one network, one service, many websites that are also connected to each other and communicate with each other is incomprehensible to them. You keep seeing this with Lemmy newbies. Although e-mail is literally this. But then again, for what appears to be the vast majority of people out there, e-mail = Google Mail.
The concept of one network, multiple services is just as incomprehensible. Following a YouTube channel or a Facebook user or a subreddit from Twitter? Impossibru!
Consequentially, the concept of one network, many different services, each in turn with many websites, all of which are connected to each other and communicate with each other is nothing short of eldritch to them.
"You mean... like... there's... like... 9,000 Twitters? And you can be on one Twitter website and follow someone on another Twitter website? How's that even possible?! And... like... there's 400 Facebooks? And you can be on one Facebook website and befriend someone on another Facebook website? And... you can follow... Facebook users? From, like, Twitter?!?" Minds equal blown. Like, heads a sploding.
This is why estimated 50% of all Mastodon users are geeks, and so are estimated 99% of all non-Mastodon, non-commercial-silos Fediverse users.
Seriously: Mastodon on-boarding is already for dumb-dumbs in practice. Load the app. Name. Password. Go. Toot away. You may or may not know that you're on a website named "mastodon.social" now (the official app defaults to mastodon.social). You may or may not know that it's only one of over 9,000 Mastodon "servers". Doesn't matter for getting on board.
Still, there are many many calls for making Fediverse on-boarding even easier, even more "for dumb-dumbs". Either whoever calls for this hasn't seen the official Mastodon phone app from up close and the way it railroads everyone to mastodon.social. Either they think that it's still a hard requirement to manually, consciously choose a server. Or they still find the way the Mastodon app handles it too complicated, too confusing, too scary.
Seriously, if the Fediverse needs to be simplified even further and made more comfortable for those who are scared of any technology beyond a toaster, those who need ChatGPT to work a washing-machine, it has to become like in my Chirper proposal: presenting itself as a centralised silo to the point of sanitising or culling any and all content that hints at the technology behind it.
Then all newbies will be Kazims as far as Fediverse knowledge goes because the software won't let them look behind itself. But it'll be as easy-peasy as joining and using WhatsApp.
Jupiter Rowland
hub.netzgemeinde.euWildmimic
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •If i may summarize:
The Fediverse is great for everyone who wants to engage with the medium they are using for real. People who don't give a fuck are not willing to invest the minimum time to understand the underlying structure, which makes the Fediverse completely opaque to them.
I will now extrapolate:
This is also what makes the Fediverse great: we are a collection basin of people who want to look behind the mirror, who are not satisfied with easy answers and shallow slogans. We want to know how shit works and are not satisfied when we realize that we are getting a raw deal.
Therefore the Fediverse itself is a great platform for connecting people who are bound to have ideas and are open to critizism. Even if we never reach critical mass (which would only mean an eternal september for most of us), we still are the fraction of society that interacts with technology and people critically - we don't accept black boxes, and we don't accept things that go against logical analysis (for the most part - we are still humans, and we all are fallable).
I would not be surprised if in the next decade there would be at least (i'd say even more, but it's the question of if we ever hear of it, because we tend to protect the fediverse in general to not become a target from outside forces) one political movement rooted in the fediverse that becomes at least a painful thorn in the side of an established government.
This network is not for everyone, but it is here for the people who actually wanna engage with technology, society, politics and the crosssections of those areas.
hendrik
in reply to hauke • • •like this
mrmaplebar, NoneOfUrBusiness, Lasslinthar and andyburke like this.
BallyM
in reply to hauke • • •Interesting article about him here — dangerousspeech.org/counter-sp…
He’s doing Mastodon a favour. He can always return to anywhere on the fediverse. Complaining that one moderator on one Mastodon instance was mean isn’t news, but maybe it is if it’s a journalist. Good for him.
Counterspeech | Hasnain Kazim
www.dangerousspeech.orglike this
mlatu, fonix232 and andyburke like this.
givesomefucks
in reply to BallyM • • •That was the only article I could find about him too.
It gave plenty of examples of him trolling bigots, almost nothing about him being a journalist except something he did for a student paper as a teenager
It seems very likely that he was fucking around and got banned for trolling.
like this
mlatu and andyburke like this.
Grail
in reply to givesomefucks • • •They banned him for trolling bigots!?
Come to MULTIVERSE! We love left wing trolls! Come sign up and tilt some bigots!
CobraCommander
in reply to Grail • • •like this
andyburke likes this.
Zaktor
in reply to CobraCommander • • •Wildmimic
in reply to givesomefucks • • •Nope. He was simply stating the fact that arabic-language comments in international media have a large majority of people celebrating the guy who weaponized his car and killed people at Berlin Pride with it, and that this was a large problem. After that comment was deleted, he cited it with the additional comment that he had been censured by the mod and that this was pretty astounding.
This means that the Mastodon.world mod neither likes when it is shown up that arabs are celebrating when someone kills gay people in germany, and that he has very thin skin regarding critique towards his moderation style.
givesomefucks
in reply to Wildmimic • • •...
So, if we take you're unsourced opinion as fact...
And now you're shocked and want people to be outraged because Mastodon worked as intended?
You want us to...
Do what exactly? Stop using the instance none of us are using? Go yell at a mod because they did what they volunteered to do?
like this
OfCourseNot and andyburke like this.
Wildmimic
in reply to givesomefucks • • •The perp wanted to join ISIS, you really think the same social group that danced in the streets after 9/11 is unable to praise someone running over gay people?
reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/…
Deleting his comment means the mod either agrees with ISIS, or would rather silence others who condemn these reactions than stand with them. The ban makes me think more about the first category.
I just wanted to set the record straight. He didn't pull the reactions of these people out of his ass, and he was communicating that this is a dangerous development. (might be inviting copycats) And he's right! Everyone celebrating this hates gay people - it is gravely concerning, similar to neonazis praising a perp when they murder an immigrant.
givesomefucks
in reply to Wildmimic • • •Oh wow...
People still using reddit said inflammatory things?!
Next you're going to tell me everyone on twitter is actually the same person as their profile pic.
Wildmimic
in reply to givesomefucks • • •givesomefucks
in reply to Wildmimic • • •There's billions of Muslims...
So you could literally show me 10s of millions that are dicks, and I'll say that means thos 10s of millions of people are dicks.
I wouldn't say that means all the billions of Muslims are dicks.
You could sub "Muslim" for any demographic, my logic would stay the same because I'm not a fucking bigot.
Wildmimic
in reply to givesomefucks • • •givesomefucks
in reply to Wildmimic • • •Again:
The actions of even 10s of millions doesn't give you a reason to judge all 2+ billion.
It's based on "religious law" by the interpretation of extremists.
Something shared with the other two Abrahmic religions and multiple others.
But at this point you are being explicitly bigoted and don't have ignorance as an excuse
Wildmimic
in reply to givesomefucks • • •Thats the problem here: i don't see any countries where laws are based on the bible and interpreted in a way that legitimizes murder of minorities based on their gender and orientation, and especially not such a widespread usage of sharia law.
You can educate me if you know of any that do so currently, and i know that not everything is peachy in all countries (especially since Trump 2 in the US), but by and large this behaviour is not socially accepted and for sure our judges don't condemn anyone to death for being gay.
Sharia is fundamentally incompatible with democracy, and also in my view incompatible with human rights. And you are falling victim to the "no true scotsman" fallacy - denying that Muslims stance towards LGBT in general is absolutely abhorrent and often deadly where they have power doesn't help anyone.
givesomefucks
in reply to Wildmimic • • •The problem you have is those countries don't exist?
The reason they don't exist, is Western Christian nations never created them like they did for Islamic and Jewish extremists.
Seriously, whatever country you're talking about, go look on Wikipedia at who put the current regime in charge and what it was like before.
If you don't have a specific example in mind, use IRA.
I'm saying by that logic (which is wrong) you should apply it to anyone that follows any of the Abrahmic religions.
There would still be problems with it, but it would be logically consistent at least.
Kierunkowy74@kbin.social
in reply to hauke • • •Unfortunately, his account has been suspended, not freezed (which would retain the account - but simply prevent him from using it), so he cannot migrate his followers to another instance.
Also unfortunate, that a pick-your-poison moderation policy choice remains apparently a brand new sentence for any "normie".
like this
NoneOfUrBusiness and Lasslinthar like this.
TORFdot0
in reply to Kierunkowy74@kbin.social • • •like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
amio
in reply to hauke • • •Anything can be a bannable offense when someone is enough of a little internet fascist. Probably won't kill the fedv off entirely but is damn sure not a selling point for anyone not already here.
"Hey, you know the people who get all officious and pissy about the tiniest atom of your every utterance? No, not the altright, the ot- yeah. How would you like to go discuss shit on a forum where half the major instances act like that? No, not Reddit, you wouldn't have heard of it as it's pretty niche for some reason. No? Yeah, didn't think so."
like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
realcaseyrollins
in reply to hauke • • •Common Mastodon L
Because Mastodon is a predominantly leftist platform, they'll always be doing stuff like this.
Twitter rival Mastodon isn’t safe from online mobs either
Megan Farokhmanesh (The Verge)like this
RandomStickman and bluGill like this.
unfortunate_ferret
in reply to hauke • • •I think that there's a specific kind of person who responds to a tragic event by looking for and reporting on people celebrating the tragedy. In my several decades of experience, the point always seems to be to try and vilify the people who share a few traits like skin colour, language, or ethnicity, and somehow it's always a group the "reporter" has some kind of problem with.
Trump did the same thing after 9/11, you know. Do you support that Trumpy kind of behaviour, to try and incite hatred against particular groups of people in that manner?
AmidFuror
in reply to unfortunate_ferret • • •CrypticCoffee
in reply to hauke • • •User on .world account complains about .world moderation.
This isn't a new problem, folk have been warning about it for a long time on Lemmy. Folk didn't want to hear it. I personally have zero confidence in their moderation. The cases I saw lacked impartiality and occasionally maturity. There are better instances. .sh.it.works for example.
I cannot imagine an organisation that appointed these moderators/admins would do particularly different on a mastodon server.
Best you can do, is move away from .world so folk see there is more out there to the fediverse than them. All eggs in the .world basket is a scandal waiting to happen.
Wataba
in reply to hauke • • •Mastodon has some really nutty moderators with bad faith attitudes, so this doesnt surprise me.
And yeah, declaring 'kill white people' as not being a racist statement and grounds for false reporting is a bad faith take in my book.
like this
gukleszl4hs48ughgxhr5xgd likes this.
carrylex
in reply to hauke • • •You could ask 100k Germans and maybe 1 person knows who he is.
Drop the famous.
hauke
in reply to carrylex • • •Fame is not objective.
Well, it is not relly important here anyway.
Wildmimic
in reply to carrylex • • •db0
in reply to hauke • • •Grainne
in reply to db0 • • •hauke
in reply to Grainne • • •The opposite is true.
dangerousspeech.org/counter-sp…
Or translate this into your language: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasnain_…
Hasnain Kazim – Wikipedia
Autoren der Wikimedia-Projekte (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Senal
in reply to hauke • • •Or perhaps listing 3 different positions and claiming someone is between them is confusing.....
Given they were directly responding to a quote of the confusing statement, perhaps they were not remarking on the actual position, but on the confusing nature of the description ?
hauke
in reply to Senal • • •Wildmimic
in reply to Grainne • • •Nah, he ain't that. He's mainly left leaning, and has no qualms addressing when local minorities have antidemocratic sentiments, while not condemning immigration itself. I can understand why it's hard to describe in one sentence to grab attention, because he might be left, but supports rightwing measures vs. immigrants who refuse to partake in the normal social context in germany and which are creating parallel societies where things like honor killings and the inofficial applying of sharia law are ok.
There are both leftwing and rightwing positions there, but from my perspective, he's the type of left-wing person we need: the type that has realized that the paradoxon of tolerance will fuck them up if they don't change something.
hauke
in reply to Wildmimic • • •Oliver
in reply to hauke • • •