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European alternatives to Google's Gmail


cross-posted from: europe.pub/post/7501

What European email services do you use?

Please recommend other interesting email services by your experience.

I have switched from Google's Gmail to ProtonMail and kMail. I really like both, kMail (by Infomaniak) have very similar app interface to Gmail so you will get used to it very fast and also have big storage for free and very good offers for paid plans 👍🏼

Originally posted on Reddit

in reply to bazzzzzzz

Because it's not the Kmail you think of, but kmail from them: infomaniak.com/
in reply to OmnomnomOom

Hmmmm likes like a domain host.... Plus productivity suite. I'm confused how to sign up for just and email address
in reply to pfr

I think you have to be from the European Union to get a free email, but if you register a domain with them you get a free email attached, no matter where you are.
in reply to Tiger Jerusalem

I looked into that also, but it requires a full name, phone number and address. I'm a bit put off by this.
in reply to Tiger Jerusalem

Not EU, only Switzerland, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Italy, Austria, Spain and Monaco.
in reply to Blaze

Just a quick notice about proton here. While it is great, if you tend to forget your passwords be carefull beacuse you will lose all your mail history when you recover. I would reccomend something more casual for casual users.
This entry was edited (18 hours ago)
in reply to szczuroarturo

If you use Proton and forget your passwords, it's okay because the Proton CEO openly praised a US president who has a history of breaking privacy laws and is actively antagonizing allies. With that moral compass running Proton, your privacy and security might be compromised at a later date.
in reply to ByteOnBikes

Wasnt this just one message on X? Though I understand Everyone's worries. Isn’t Proton a company with a board of directors and a binding mission statement. I am sincerely wondering if the whole thing isn’t blown up too much. For me I am with proton for now and keeping my ear to the ground concerning any developments. But in short Proton is a safe and secure EU based alternative for Gmail right now, wouldn’t you agree?

Proton’s whole mission statement is based around privacy so it would take a big shift in the company to actually start registering and selling data… at least that’s my perspective. I’m curious to see if any more developments will occur concerning their CEO

in reply to Jofus

old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/co…

Here is his response, he only apologized for using the official brand account. It's wise to look for alternatives, and he should suffer Musk like consequences.

This entry was edited (16 hours ago)
in reply to Blaze

If what you want is encrypted email, and see it in the form of a chat, take a look at ArcaneChat
in reply to c1a5s1c

I've been using them for a bit over a year now and don't have any complaints so far. If you don't care about the office suite, their email only package is €1.50/month for 5 users, which is hard to beat. You can use your own domain too. I like that their web/android clients have a proper conversation view that also shows your replies (like Gmail does). This has been missing from other providers I've tried (except Fastmail). Their android app is on F-Droid and open source which is nice. There were a few odd translations, like "Transfer" instead of "Forward", but I think they've fixed those since. It's not been long enough for me to comment on reliability or missing emails, but so far so good.
in reply to BrundleFly2077

I just switched over to it from proton. Do not have the issue that their spam filter is abysmally bad? There is so much spam coming though and even mails that I already reported as spam come through. Also the app is kinda slow and clumsy.
in reply to rooroo

yes, one comment saying that republicans do one thing right means exactly what you wrote
in reply to SchwertImStein

Here's the actual tweet so you can see it for yourself

Image/photo

He did praise Trump and platform him, then he praised the Republican party saying they are the party of "the little guys" (small business), which is just flat out wrong. He does not acknowledge that there are an abundance of things Trump is doing that is fucking awful and disgusting. At best it's an extremely tone-deaf tweet.

What that comment does is paint Trump and the Republican party in a very good light and ignores other things they do that are terrible, illegal, and much more important than a single cherry-picked action. That's effectively an endorsement (i.e. ass-kissing) without saying it in exact words.

Also, it's so very obvious that anyone associated with Trump absolutely needs to abide by Trump's every whim or else he will replace you. So, the point he was trying to make is entirely moot in the first place.

There is just no way to praise Trump or the Republican party without showing your ignorance or alignment with them. Just like you can't just have a little bit of shit in your food. Once you've got even a little bit of shit in your food, then you've got shit-food. Or, in this case, a Trump-shit stained CEO's mouth.

This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to go $fsck yourself

archive.ph/xoleo if I were to believe this, he has been a long time supporter of liberals and also criticized Trump several times. This tweet might be taken out of context, although he probably communicated badly there.
in reply to Comtief

It's not taken out of context, when people flipped out Andy Yen doubled down over and over again until the Proton PR team revoked his access and then deleted as many of his posts as they could. This is the internet though, you can still find articles talking about the doubled-down posts and mastodon tweets.
in reply to Comtief

That's not the double down, he kept posting big huge paragraphs praising the Republican party and using some very maga-soindijg sound bites. I'll try to come back to this later and provide some sources that actually reference some of the now-deleted posts, I'm currently stuck in a waiting room. Not gonna try to do that level of research on a phone lol.
in reply to ysjet

Do you have any links to the articles and mastodon tweets? I can't find anything atm.
EDIT:
archive.ph/2yWGz

insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-…

reddit.com/r/AMADisasters/comm…

reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/commen…

techstory.in/proton-mail-faces…

insights.priva.cat/p/a-follow-…

Went through these.. didn't really contradict anything I said, imo. I mean, yes he seems naive in believing that republicans could somehow be more against big tech than democrats... but at the same time, the corporate capture is pretty bad in the USA overall (by bad i mean way too overextended).
If anything, Andy just seems single minded about the issue of big tech and that makes him naive about republicans, but it doesn't look like he is actually supporting them.. yet. Like, he foolishly says what is on his mind with zero regards to optics.

This entry was edited (19 hours ago)
in reply to Comtief

Plenty of Trump's current regime has criticized Trump. And now they're licking his boots. So, I'm not sure that's a exactly a great argument.
in reply to go $fsck yourself

I think its a better argument once you consider Proton has donated a lot to liberals and to support Ukraine and that the tweet was specifically about antitrust enforcement against Big Tech. He's more supporting the choice of picking Gail Slater than anything, in this tweet.
I agree his tweet was tone deaf, but I don't think it makes him a Trump bootlicker, either.
in reply to Comtief

The fact he's stating that 'Republicans are the party for small businesses' in itself shows how absolutely ignorant he is and willing to drink their bullshit.
in reply to Comtief

By the way, that article is extremely suspicious. It's the only article submitted by that user. It seems like a planted damage-control article.
in reply to go $fsck yourself

It’s even worse than I thought tbh. Half a year ago I considered a move to Proton, now I’m glad I didn’t.
in reply to rooroo

I did move to proton after hearing all this stuff, seems overblown and out of context. Tone deaf of the CEO to make such a tweet, sure, but he has been a long time supporter of liberals and not a fan of Trump.
in reply to Comtief

What context? There's no other context for this tweet.

The way I see it is that he only cares about how his business and his own ideologies benefit. As long as he gets what he wants, that's what matters. Not everything else that's absolutely horrendous that Trump and the Republican party are doing, and things that show that you can't trust anything they do even if it may seem like a good thing on its face.

At best, tone-deaf, ignorant, and somewhat disrespectful to the people that are and will be suffering from Trump's regime.

That ain't a CEO that I can trust. I'll pass. You do what you want, but it's certainly not overblown or missing context.

in reply to go $fsck yourself

I don't blame you for drawing these conclusions, for me what I've read this far is not convincing enough to stop using Proton. It makes me weary, yes, but it's not so black and white for me after I read more about it.
I'd still take proton over Gmail any day and the private drive thing is nice too, as long as he won't go full pro-Trump, I'm fine with Proton.
I mean, he is not even wrong that democrats are captured by big tech, he just seems naive to think that Republicans are not actually worse.
Also his donating pattern is similar to George Soros, so there is that.
in reply to Comtief

I gotcha. Though "as long as he won't go full pro-Trump" seems a bit close for comfort. Maybe he is and he's just toning it down publicly.

Overall, though, I'd rather see people suggesting other options first. Then tossing in Proton as an option along with the context of that tweet showing that he's not exactly reliable and could be not far off from full MAGA.

in reply to Comtief

For real. Even Bernie Sanders has praised Trump on a single issue before. Are we going to turn against him too?

Donald Trump Gets Unexpected Praise from Bernie Sanders: 'Good Idea'

in reply to AlDente

False equivalence. Bernie has more than enough history of outlining his views on Trump. Yen doesn't have that kind of history, so the tweet reads as an endorsement overall. The fact he's stating that 'Republicans are the party for small businesses' in itself shows how absolutely ignorant he is and willing to drink their bullshit.

That's enough for me to see how he stands. He may not be fully supportive of Trump and the Republicans, but he's shown himself to be beyond the threshold that I am willing to tolerate.

in reply to go $fsck yourself

Andy Yen might not have the same publicity as Bernie Sanders, but the history is there. This article covers actions and statements from Andy and Proton going back about ten years from what I can see in the timestamps. Some of the highlights include Andy personally:
- announcing programs to support girls into tech that may be considered DEI by GOP standards
- announcing fundraising for Ukraine after the Russian invasion
- criticizing the termination of Credit Suisse's first and only black CEO, Tidjane Thiam, as racism
- praising Biden's choice for FTC chair, Lina Khan, after she initiated lawsuits against big tech
- collaborating with Lina Khan in an antitrust report submitted by a Democratic party majority in the Subcommittee on Antitrust
- and outlining new privacy concerns resulting from Trump taking control of the NSA on the official Proton blog.

Yet, despite Andy's history of actions that run contrary to Trump and the GOP platform, I'd charge that the greater false equivalency is equating Andy as Proton. While Bernie can clearly speak for himself, Andy is not alone in controlling Proton. Proton is a non-profit foundation governed by a board of directors and is headquartered in a country with laws against complying with US subpoenas. As as greater entity, Proton has donated to left-leaning organizations such as Fight for the Future in the US, Access Now, and Women Who Code. Reviewing Proton donations, I don't see any right-leaning contributions. Most of it is toward privacy and freedom-of-press focused organizations that align with my views. You may have made up your mind on Andy, but I refuse to throw out the entire positive history of Proton in response to this one tweet.

This entry was edited (5 hours ago)
in reply to AlDente

I've gone over that article before and it doesn't outline a character that would not align with Trump when it suits him, which is the main concern here. He showed very clearly that he is willing to be utterly ignorant and blind to Trump and the Republican party's full scope of deeds and praise them for something that is just false.

In your list of actions you picked out you're having to reach in order to make them seem like it shows his full character.

Supporting girls into tech "that may be considered DEI by GOP standards" doesn't show he's opposed to the Republicans anti-DEI policies at all, making that entirely irrelevant.

Supporting Ukraine just means he supported Ukraine, not that he's disgusted by Trump's support of Russia, his calling for Ukraine to let Russia take their land, or even his abhorrent behavior towards Zelenskyy.

Praising Biden's FTC pick doesn't align himself with the Democrats. (though that would also be a rather dumb thing in a different way. Fuck the Democrats.)

Collaborating with Lina Khan on anti-trust literally directly benefits him.

The Proton Blog post you're referencing literally has an entire section subtitled "It is not Trump's fault".

Most importantly, that Medium article itself is highly suspect. It's the only thing submitted by that author and they haven't written anything else since. It seems too much like a planted article made for damage control.

So, it's not "despite his history" because he doesn't have any anti-trump history. Even Trump himself has "actions that run contrary to Trump and the GOP platform" as you say. That's the most mild possible kind of argument that Yen isn't pro-trump.

If the goal was to say that he is very hopeful about Gail Slater, that's all he had to do. If he wanted to say that the Democrats have been failing at being proactive against big tech, he could have said that. If he wanted to say that he thinks that he can work with Republicans to achieve good goals, he could have said that, too.

Again, what we do have is Yen praising Trump and then praising the Republican party for something that is not true. His argument is that because of the "corporate capture Democrats" (not wrong) that means that the Republicans is the party that fighting against big tech, which is just so inexcusably ignorant towards Trump and the Republican party. The big tech giants were there with Trump at his inauguration seated right by him!

I have not heard anyone make any argument to equate Yen to Proton, and neither have I made any statement to that effect. Though, he still is the CEO which means he still has significant sway over Proton.

Don't forget that Trump is a rapist. So, personally, I refuse to excuse anyone who gives Trump any praise without specifically acknowledging that fact.

I, and many others, simply do not want to support Proton because it supports Yen who made such an utterly stupid tweet that is more than just a little concerning and tone-deaf, which then also calls into question Proton's future. I'd rather avoid Proton when there are other options, and I'd rather people know about the other options and about the context that Yen himself is questionable making Proton questionable, too.

This entry was edited (3 hours ago)
in reply to rooroo

I did move, then cancelled my sub. Now I have to find another another
in reply to Th3D3k0y

I'm a big fan of tuta if you just need mail for the other services mullvad's still pretty good if you're not doing torrenting/need port forwarding for other reasons. Bitwarden is amazingm
in reply to Blaze

Disroot is based in the netherlands i believe.

disroot.org/en

From their page:

“Disroot is a platform providing online services based on principles of freedom, privacy, federation and decentralization.

No tracking, no ads, no profiling, no data mining!”

This entry was edited (2 days ago)
in reply to webghost0101

Apparently not all their services have full encryption (I think their forgejo is unencrypted and plain text?)
in reply to Blaze

  • only web app
  • needs client app


What's up with that misleading information as if there's something missing? This just means you can use any mail application you want with the standard mail protocols IMAP and POP3. If a mail provider is offering an app themselves that's fine but that's nothing a mail provider HAS to offer.
What's much more important is how they handle you data, how good they filter out spam, how big you mailbox can be, cost, sustainability etc. But the app is the least important thing.

in reply to einsfuenfzigbreit

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tutanota uses a proprietary protocol to communicate with email clients, so an app is needed. Perhaps "needs client app" means that.
in reply to Blaze

I'm using Soverin myself. Switched a few months back and they've been great so far
in reply to phx

Don't hear Soverin get recommended much these days. Been around for a while tho. Your ever heard of CodaMail?
in reply to pfr

I haven't tried that one. I had a few choices alongside Soverin. Proton I ruled out because of their weird support of the US government, and apart from that I think Soverin was the only one with unlimited aliases